Hey! In this episode: *Post-covid patterns that caused many people to play the career game on “hard mode” *Me sniffling a lot *That’s it. To leave a comment go to howtobusiness/substack.com
This resonated. I have been remote since 2019 (to be closer to grandparents so we could have help as working parents). I know that my success is because I already was successful in my job and had established relationships. Now that I am on the exciting, steep curve of workshopping and marketing, I am needing that energy and in person community.
So I am going to coffee shops more just to be near people, and attend Creative Mornings events. That isn't enough so I'm starting my own product meetups so I can connect more that way. I'm hopeful that will create the connection, learning, and impact I crave.
Yes, I love the convenience and peace as you said (especially as a parent and HSP), BUT there are sacrifices. I wrote about this on LI not too long ago. In the book The Radical Art of Taking Time, Brooke McAlary writes "Tech offers us accessibility, inclusivity, and the ability to connect, but it shouldn't be a replacement for human connection. If we all work from home, socialize from home (etc)... we're ticking all the important boxes of living well, but without connection, without face-to-face human interaction, we're missing out on a chunk of what life has to offer."
Thank you again. Your random posts in Inner Circle and the occasional podcast are providing the authentic, just in time information I seek out (and am not getting) in a lot of podcasts and social media. I can tell others feel the same.
As someone who did this move, I took some time to collect my thoughts on this topic. It's going to be a very long comment so bear with me, please :)
First, here's some context: I did not make this move because of COVID stuff, but for other personal reasons some of which I'll describe below. I moved from Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, into a rural area, to a village where my wife comes from, 130ish km away.
Why?
- The city is getting more and more crowded, a lot of people are coming in from all over Croatia, as well as from other countries and the infrastructure is not following that
- It's a real challenge to get anywhere from A to B without getting frustrated. One does not know which is worse - public transport or car. No biking routes whatsoever, no underground, trains are among the slowest in Europe...
- Career-wise I don't see much value staying there. It's incomparable to Berlin. There are only a few very successful and "motivational" companies, one of which I do work for and I don't see a point staying there. Tbh, I've had more motivation on ICM coaching calls and other ICM events than in all my working time in Zagreb. Seriously.
- If I stayed in the city I probably wouldn't be able to afford the WM program :)
- Yes, there is the advantage of being in the office more often, but it takes me 40ish minutes to commute and I live only 8 km from the office. Traffic jams really drain my energy. It would take me an hour and a half if my office was on the other side of the city. That's exactly the same amount of time I need from my village to any point in Zagreb.
- We lived in a 60m2 apartment there, we did not pay the rent because it was my family's place but it started being too small for a family with three kids.
- Speaking of rents, they skyrocketed and for an average apartment of 60ish m2, you pay on average 600-700 EUR. Keep in mind the average salary is around 1400 EUR and the food prices are similar to Germany. The real estate prices in and around Zagreb skyrocketed as well. On average you'd pay between 2500-3000 EUR for a square meter, which is insane.
- We'd like to have a big family, and the city is just now the best environment for that.
- Kids enjoy it here a lot.
- We'd like to have our small homestead as well, which obviously can't be done in the city.
- When I look from the spiritual perspective (I am religious), it's far more beneficial to live in peace here rather than in a crowded city. This is also how I look at personal growth - in my case, it necessarily includes spiritual life and growth.
- My long-term goal is to do facilitation, and workshops, especially related to product design, discovery, strategy, and UX to have more free time for family and other stuff I love like woodworking.
- Taking high-class online courses and following ambitious and experienced people like you, or others in my area, attending high-quality events like WM Meet-Up, and local UX meet-ups are quite beneficial to my career. It does take more effort maybe but again, it's also rewarding.
To sum up, all this topic really is subjective, and it all depends. Me and my family are doing great here so far, although there were some setbacks. Someone else might consider the city center or suburbs a more suitable place for them.
Great episode… I can totally relate to the point you are making. I moved to the Netherlands because I am a career focused person. And I love what I do, so for me it has worth it.
However, it is a decision that has costed me a lot of family time. I come from Colombia and even though I try to go back once a year, inevitably I have missed key moments in my nephew’s upbringing for example… I always wondered if I would have stayed, would I be in the place that I am right now in my career and the answer is a hard no. I would not have found this amazing facilitation skill that has literally integrated so many parts of my professional life. And for that I am grateful.
Thanks for sharing and keep them coming @Jonathan! 🙌🙌🙌
Great episode Jonathan! It's crazy that basically saying "being close to people physically not just online is important" is seen as controversial to some people 😂
I remember talking about this with some friends during the pandemic (we live in London) most agreed to wait and see how things panned out but some didn't....and it's pretty obvious to me who is happier right now!
Everything is very subjective here. Living in a rural area doesn't necessarily equate to social isolation and a lack of meaningful relationships. While it's true that one may have fewer career opportunities, it's important to remember that life is not solely about work. Ultimately, work is a means to an end and not the other way around.
This resonated. I have been remote since 2019 (to be closer to grandparents so we could have help as working parents). I know that my success is because I already was successful in my job and had established relationships. Now that I am on the exciting, steep curve of workshopping and marketing, I am needing that energy and in person community.
So I am going to coffee shops more just to be near people, and attend Creative Mornings events. That isn't enough so I'm starting my own product meetups so I can connect more that way. I'm hopeful that will create the connection, learning, and impact I crave.
Yes, I love the convenience and peace as you said (especially as a parent and HSP), BUT there are sacrifices. I wrote about this on LI not too long ago. In the book The Radical Art of Taking Time, Brooke McAlary writes "Tech offers us accessibility, inclusivity, and the ability to connect, but it shouldn't be a replacement for human connection. If we all work from home, socialize from home (etc)... we're ticking all the important boxes of living well, but without connection, without face-to-face human interaction, we're missing out on a chunk of what life has to offer."
Thank you again. Your random posts in Inner Circle and the occasional podcast are providing the authentic, just in time information I seek out (and am not getting) in a lot of podcasts and social media. I can tell others feel the same.
As someone who did this move, I took some time to collect my thoughts on this topic. It's going to be a very long comment so bear with me, please :)
First, here's some context: I did not make this move because of COVID stuff, but for other personal reasons some of which I'll describe below. I moved from Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, into a rural area, to a village where my wife comes from, 130ish km away.
Why?
- The city is getting more and more crowded, a lot of people are coming in from all over Croatia, as well as from other countries and the infrastructure is not following that
- It's a real challenge to get anywhere from A to B without getting frustrated. One does not know which is worse - public transport or car. No biking routes whatsoever, no underground, trains are among the slowest in Europe...
- Career-wise I don't see much value staying there. It's incomparable to Berlin. There are only a few very successful and "motivational" companies, one of which I do work for and I don't see a point staying there. Tbh, I've had more motivation on ICM coaching calls and other ICM events than in all my working time in Zagreb. Seriously.
- If I stayed in the city I probably wouldn't be able to afford the WM program :)
- Yes, there is the advantage of being in the office more often, but it takes me 40ish minutes to commute and I live only 8 km from the office. Traffic jams really drain my energy. It would take me an hour and a half if my office was on the other side of the city. That's exactly the same amount of time I need from my village to any point in Zagreb.
- We lived in a 60m2 apartment there, we did not pay the rent because it was my family's place but it started being too small for a family with three kids.
- Speaking of rents, they skyrocketed and for an average apartment of 60ish m2, you pay on average 600-700 EUR. Keep in mind the average salary is around 1400 EUR and the food prices are similar to Germany. The real estate prices in and around Zagreb skyrocketed as well. On average you'd pay between 2500-3000 EUR for a square meter, which is insane.
- We'd like to have a big family, and the city is just now the best environment for that.
- Kids enjoy it here a lot.
- We'd like to have our small homestead as well, which obviously can't be done in the city.
- When I look from the spiritual perspective (I am religious), it's far more beneficial to live in peace here rather than in a crowded city. This is also how I look at personal growth - in my case, it necessarily includes spiritual life and growth.
- My long-term goal is to do facilitation, and workshops, especially related to product design, discovery, strategy, and UX to have more free time for family and other stuff I love like woodworking.
- Taking high-class online courses and following ambitious and experienced people like you, or others in my area, attending high-quality events like WM Meet-Up, and local UX meet-ups are quite beneficial to my career. It does take more effort maybe but again, it's also rewarding.
To sum up, all this topic really is subjective, and it all depends. Me and my family are doing great here so far, although there were some setbacks. Someone else might consider the city center or suburbs a more suitable place for them.
If you got this far, thanks for reading! :D
Yey! Without the intro music 😂
The episode sounds great
Love the podcast! Thank you for finding joy in doing the podcast once in a while :)
Great episode… I can totally relate to the point you are making. I moved to the Netherlands because I am a career focused person. And I love what I do, so for me it has worth it.
However, it is a decision that has costed me a lot of family time. I come from Colombia and even though I try to go back once a year, inevitably I have missed key moments in my nephew’s upbringing for example… I always wondered if I would have stayed, would I be in the place that I am right now in my career and the answer is a hard no. I would not have found this amazing facilitation skill that has literally integrated so many parts of my professional life. And for that I am grateful.
Thanks for sharing and keep them coming @Jonathan! 🙌🙌🙌
Great episode Jonathan! It's crazy that basically saying "being close to people physically not just online is important" is seen as controversial to some people 😂
I remember talking about this with some friends during the pandemic (we live in London) most agreed to wait and see how things panned out but some didn't....and it's pretty obvious to me who is happier right now!
Everything is very subjective here. Living in a rural area doesn't necessarily equate to social isolation and a lack of meaningful relationships. While it's true that one may have fewer career opportunities, it's important to remember that life is not solely about work. Ultimately, work is a means to an end and not the other way around.